Ep 3 | SMSFs Decoded: When (and Why) to Become Your Own Super Fund Trustee

Guest Expert: Natalia Clack | Easy Super | SMSF Specialist

You're building a business empire, but who's controlling your retirement wealth?

For most Australian business owners, superannuation is an afterthought, a box to tick, a compliance obligation, money disappearing into someone else's hands. But what if your super fund could work as hard as you do? What if you could invest it in property, control where every dollar goes, and build wealth on your terms?

You already take control of everything else in your business. Why hand over your retirement savings to strangers who don't know your goals, your risk tolerance, or your vision for the future?

In this episode, Fiercely Financial hosts Kate De Jong and Dee Skillicorn sit down with SMSF specialist Natalia Clack to decode self-managed super funds. We tackle when they make sense (and when they don't), who should consider one, and how to avoid the costly mistakes that could derail your retirement.

Natalia brings deep expertise in helping business owners take control of their superannuation through strategic SMSF structures. She's passionate about education-first advice, ensuring her clients understand not just the how, but the why behind every decision.

What We Cover

• Why SMSFs aren't just for the wealthy, and why younger investors are setting them up earlier than ever
• The control paradox: You manage your business, your investments, your property, so why not your retirement?
• What you can actually invest in: property (including your business premises), shares, crypto, precious metals, and more
• The tax advantages that can supercharge wealth building: 15% during accumulation, 10% CGT, 0% after 60
• The responsibilities you're taking on, and why this is NOT a playground for speculation
• Common mistakes that trigger ATO penalties and how to avoid them
• The advice gap: Why no single expert can guide you through everything (and what to do about it)
• When an SMSF makes sense, and when traditional super is the smarter choice

If you loved this episode, please share it with another business owner who needs to hear it!

Ready to take control of your wealth strategy?

Join the Fiercely Financial Action Planning Workshop to get direct access to Natalia and our other expert guests on 30th May 2026. Bring your questions, your numbers, and your goals, and let's build your personalised wealth plan together. 

Spots are limited, please reach out to your hosts to secure your spot!

Connect with Your Hosts

Natalia Clack, SMSF Specialist
https://easysuper.au/ 

Dee Skillicorn, Cryptocurrency Expert at Digi-Secure
https://digi-secure.co | ✉️ dee@digi-secure.co

Kate De Jong, Business Coach at Inspired Business
https://katedejong.com | 📱 @katedejong.inspiredbusiness | ✉️ kate@katedejong.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

You're bringing in the money, but are you building wealth? Welcome to Fiercely Financial, bringing you insights from top experts to help you shift from business owner to wealth creator. We're your hosts, Kate De Yong. And I'm Dee Skillicorn. And we're on a mission to help more business owners build long-term wealth. Let's dive in. Hello everyone and welcome back to the Fiercely Financial podcast series. I'm delighted to be here today with my co-host Dee Skillicorn from DigiSecure. Dee is a cryptocurrency expert. As you all know by now, she helps people build wealth through crypto. We are very honoured to have another superpower guest with us today, Natalia Clark. Hi, Natalia. Hi, Kate. Hi, Dee. I am just going to do a little intro for you, Natalia. So you are the founder and director of Easy Super. You help empower wealth creation for your clients through self-managed super funds, making sure they're in control of their SMSF with the goal of enjoying a comfortable retirement in the future. And it's a central piece of this whole financial puzzle of building wealth. So, Natalia, first up, how did you end up getting into specializing in SMSFs?

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Oh, it happened by accident. I came to Australia. Um, originally I'm from Russia, and I came to Australia 22 years ago and started working as an accountant and in SMSF space, and I loved it. I absolutely loved it. So it happened by accident, but I decided to stay and continue and specialize in SMSFs.

SPEAKER_02 1:36

What is it that you love so much about SMSFs?

SPEAKER_00 1:41

I guess um it's empowering, empowering our clients uh to take responsibility for their financial future and to take control for their financial future as well. So I feel very honored to be able to assist everyday Australians who are very often, apart from uh superanniation, a lot of Australians don't have much and don't have much to retire on. So by helping them to build um the wealth using their superanniation and utilize the SMSF vehicle for that, it's um it's been an interesting but very, very um empowering journey for me.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

Yeah, so I've only just started set up my own SMSF in the last year or two. And it uh before that, I um you know can admit that I had no idea sort of what they were for, when you would use them. And um yeah, it was my financial advisor that suggested I set one up, but it's it's a whole new world for me in how you, you know, the benefit of them and how you manage them and run them. So could you give people an idea of um when you would consider using an SMSF and when is it beneficial over a traditional superfund?

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Um, SMSFs used to be for people of 50 plus and uh for high network individuals, and um, they used to be set up by the financial planners like you did. However, it's changed significantly and in the last, I think, 10-15 years. And now SMSF, I would say SMSF is for everyone, whoever has uh superanniation. There are a few things to consider, of course, and um this is where where I want to give a disclaimer that um the information provided um at this webinar today is a general general information only, and we don't provide the financial advice. I didn't consider your personal circumstances, objectives, and needs, so you need to contact your accountant or financial advisor if you want to advise. So basically, with SMSFs, anyone who has superanniation can set up SMSF. Of course, you have to consider the cost, and this is something for everyone to decide. But we have clients in their 20s uh who would call us and say, I'm gonna set up SMSF, even I have um less than um say 100,000 in my superanniation. However, I want to take control over my superanation, uh, and I'm getting regular contributions, which is uh superanation guarantee contributions now 12%. So I know my superanation is growing and will grow, but I want to take control early in my life.

SPEAKER_02 4:29

That's amazing. I mean, uh in my 20s I had no idea.

SPEAKER_03 4:33

Yeah, that's a that's a good, that's a great idea, particularly if they're young. I mean, that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

It's um yeah, it's changing significantly. And I've read a research from CBAS of what they are saying that um, you know, CBAS is for builders and traders, that a lot of traders are actually quite financially savvy, and they look at the vehicles like SMSF and they diversify um uh into um alternative assets like cryptocurrency. So it's all happening. It's like I said, it used to be for high nitrof individuals and people who would be approaching retirement like 50 plus, it's changed significantly now.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

Yeah. And so what's one of the big um misunderstandings that you people think people might have about SMSFs? Or what prevents people from going down this path aside from the costs that you mentioned? Um, I know in my case it was just ignorance. I didn't know, you know, and and therefore fearful about what do I do? How do I make sure I manage? It feels like a big responsibility, if you know what I mean, if you're taking charge of your own superannuation. And my fear was what if I do it wrong or what if I make a mistake? You know, so how do you guide people through that process?

SPEAKER_00 5:52

I believe that missing piece is education. So, because uh there are financial advisors out there who can set up SMSF for you, of course, because SMSF is a financial product. However, also there are providers um like Easy Super, where we set up SMSF. It's called execution only. This is where you come to us and say, we want to set up SMSF. This is um um this is the name, and please set up SMSF for us. It's called execution only, and we do it for you. However, we don't provide uh investment advice or financial advice. It means we do not recommend you to set up SMSF. You ask us to do that. However, what's uh what makes us different uh is that after we set up SMSF, we provide education on um what you can do in SMSF, where you can invest your superanniation into um what the estate planning looks like in SMSF, how to put more money in into your super, how much tax you are going to pay in your super, when can you access your superanniation? All these topics are covered, but it's under education segment. It's not the advice because again, we don't look at your particular circumstances. And this is um, I believe this is what the missing piece because people are a lot of people are scared to start their own SMSF because uh of this reason, because then that they're not sure that they are capable um to manage their own SMSF. They feel like it's um too much of the burden, too many responsibilities. And um, if if they get a guidance from the financial advisor, it's quite expensive, we have to admit that financial advice in Australia is uh an expensive um exercise. And uh a lot of people think, you know what, I I would just leave it out there for someone to um to look after my superination. And of course, um it means that you um potentially, potentially not making um your uh retirement nest um bigger because you know you're not obviously um investing your superination, you rely on someone to invest your superination. And as you know, when we we outsource our finances, it's not always a good idea. It could be a good idea for some people, I understand. Not everyone is financially savvy or financially curious. However, if people um feel that you know they um get themselves educated on the uh financial topics, um, and a lot of people um do get themselves educated on um different again uh wealth strategies, then I think you know, like it could be a good idea to consider self-managed superination fund as a vehicle for future to build a future wealth.

SPEAKER_02 8:47

So aside from having control over your own finances and you know, you're taking you've got autonomy, what are some of the other benefits of an SMSF over traditional funds?

SPEAKER_00 8:59

Uh, first of all, you can invest in asset classes which you cannot invest um when you are with, say, Australian super or C bus, any industry or retail supernation fund. These assets are uh such as the cryptocurrency, alternative assets, um gold, silver, property, you cannot do it in um under the uh uh Australian super or C bus, under any of the large superanation funds, they will not let you. Also, if you want to pick the particular, even with shares, if you want to pick particular shares, say for example, you want to invest all your superanation in Facebook shares, just for the example. Um, you cannot do it. You cannot call your uh superanation fund and say, Oh, I want to invest all my superination in such and such shares. So basically, you don't have any choice. That's um, this is advantage number one. Advantage number two is tax. You um you pay maximum 15% tax um under the superanation umbrella, which means if uh if you have a choice of investing outside of super or inside of super, you have to start thinking, okay, if I invest outside of super, I'm paying um my whatever my marginal tax rate is, I'm paying this tax. Capital gain tax or income tax. If I'm investing inside of superanation system, which is only SMSF, um, can give you this option to choose your investments, then I'm paying maximum 15% tax. And capital gain tax becomes 10% after 12 months. So if you buy an asset and hold it for more than 12 months, uh then your capital gain tax becomes um 10%. And then it gets better once you get older, because uh once you reach the age of 60, potentially your tax um can become zero. And this is where um when people call me and say, Oh, I'm gonna start SMSF, and I would ask them how old are you? And they would say, for example, 60 or 65, I would say, Oh my god, it's like you know, you you're in the best position ever because that age is actually an advantage for the superior purposes, because the older you are, the less tax you pay.

SPEAKER_03 11:27

That's a very valid point. I didn't actually know that, so I've learned something new out of today as well.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

Me too, yeah, already. Yeah. And Dee, this is why you and Natalia work so closely together because cryptocurrency obviously is not something that people can invest in through their a traditional super fund. So you would need to, your clients need to see someone like Natalia to Absolutely, and we we most definitely co-collaborate.

SPEAKER_03 11:50

Um, I'm more than happy to send all my clients over to Natalia. I don't have any qualms about that whatsoever. And vice versa, she sends them back to me so that they understand what self-custody is and how they actually need to care for their cryptocurrency. So it's it's really a very professional synergy that we have between us and something that we're working on. And we we both hope to increase um that exposure this year. So we do have a joint webinar coming up at the start of March, which we're very excited about as well.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

Can't wait to hear that. Yeah, and self-custody and all of that good stuff around crypto, we're going to get your episode in yeah, when that's coming up soon. Um, and so um, yeah, that's that the fact that traditional super managed super funds um don't invest in in gold and it's it's purely the share market, is that right? I mean, um and property.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

Well, they could have exposure, they could have some exposure to um you know um sorry, uh alternative assets. However, you cannot tell them where to invest your so you just uh one, yeah, you're just in a big pool of money and they um diversify. Of course, they would diversify into the different um shares and managed funds and ETFs. However, you don't have a say. You don't have a say.

SPEAKER_02 13:14

Right. Okay. So the the um the manager of the super fund or the company behind it decides on the portfolio mixes and you get to choose which one as a customer, right? Is that how that's how that works?

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Uh you get to choose uh you you you mean when you're in the industry or retail supervenation fund? Yeah. Yeah, when you are in the industry or retail supervenation fund, you get to choose your risk profile. Yeah, that's it. So basically you are risky or you are not risky, but you don't get to choose your um your share location, yeah, your portfolio.

SPEAKER_02 13:50

And a lot of people I speak to say, oh, my super fund's doing great. It returns 11-12% every year. Why would I change? You know, so um, yeah, it is the is part of the attraction for an SMSF that the returns can be bigger than that.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

Oh yeah, absolutely. Um, but again, I have to give a disclosure here that SMSF is not for everyone. Um, I wouldn't say like, oh, um, let's do SMSF for everyone. Of course, there are some people who would be better off leaving their superanniation in the industry or retail supernection funds and let the managers um to look after their superination. Absolutely and deliver like 10, 11. Yeah, and deliver yeah, um, delivering 10 or 11 percent return. Uh, look, first of all, it's not all supernation funds. Um, there are only a few superanation funds which deliver that high return, but there are a few out there, and it's not like 10, 11% is not bad because it's set and forget for people. So again, um it's safe. Um we we know that um superanation funds, industry retail superanation, large superanation funds now are not going to collapse or go bankrupt. We can all like it's a government guarantee, and also the money is definitely safe there. Uh, however, the returns will fluctuate with the market because usually what happens for for example, um, in a year when the market is performing really well, uh share market, they they deliver uh high returns when the market is not performing well, and uh we remember 2008 when um all market collapse um oh sorry, superanation funds did not perform well at all because they just follow the market. So that's that that's the usual sort of like rule of thumb how you can look at their returns. So and um yeah, 10-11% return could be enough for some people, and for some people they say, I can do better, I can do better, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:05

And Dee, you were saying you were um confirming what Natalia said about not everyone should be in a SMSF um.

SPEAKER_03 16:12

Absolutely, and we we do say the same thing in cryptocurrency too. Um, not everybody should be self-custodian of their funds. Now that's not that's not to say that you can't do it, but there's different reasons. Now we when we do actually go through this thing, we do a bit of an analysis on you to make that that decision for you together on that. But in all fairness, it isn't for everybody. So I really agree with Natalia, and that's one of the things that I do enjoy about working with her, is she's quite particular about the types of people that can go into a self-managed super fund because it's not a generic rule. Right? You just can't you just can't go out there and do that. So I totally agree with her on that with regards to it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

And so, what are the qualities of a person that can manage their fund? You've said they need to be financially curious, they need to value autonomy over their money, their future wealth. What else are the qualities that you look for?

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Well, look, I would also look at their balance, uh, which people have uh in the suburbanation fund. Um, even in the beginning, I said that um SMSF could be established with any balance. However, people should consider the fees because there are fees to set up SMSF. There are annual compliance fees, and um, if someone has a low balance, low balance when I mean uh what I mean under low balance is under 100 grand, 150 grand, then probably it's a good idea to um consider SMSF, however, think about it, how much I'm going to pay in SMSF, how much I'm paying now. So everyone can log into their superanniation funds online account or check a statement at 30th of June and check the fees they are paying. There are two sets of fees: it's um administration fees and um investment fees. Investment fees um it's a percentage of your balance. So obviously, if your balance is only 20 grand, you are not paying much because it's a percentage of your balance. But if your balance is 500,000, then um most likely you'll be paying more fees than um fees you'll be paying in SMSF. So that's um look, around 300,000, this is where the fees which people pay in the industry or retail supernation fund become equal to the fees they will be paying in SMSF. Yeah. Um also I have to mention that when I say a balance, it's not um if you have uh two people in SMSF, because SMSF can have up to six members, it's a combined balance, combined balance of two people, not one person. But obviously, if it's a single person and they would have SMSF um by themselves, then it's only one balance. And this is another advantage of SMSF that you can combine your superioration with your partner or your spouse and invest together.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

Right, yeah, yeah, interesting. So, what are some of the do's and don'ts of SMSFs?

SPEAKER_00 19:19

Oh, first one of the first and main rules that SMSF assets must stay separate from your own personal assets. So when you set up SMSF, you have to think about it. It's not your money yet. You're just a manager, you're managing this money for your future retirement. It means you have to be uh you have to keep all the assets separately, separate bank account. If you invest in any asset class, say you invest in crypto, it means you have to open a separate account for cryptocurrency. If you buy property, again, property has to be under the SMSF name. So keep everything separate. Uh, understanding the rules, uh, SMSF uh superior rules are important, and everyone uh who manages their SMSF, I would definitely encourage you to do your own research, even your own ATO website, uh, and um educate yourself on what the rules are around SMSFs. We educate our clients when uh clients join um uh us as a you know, like for SMSF establishment, for example. We run um a workshop where I would explain all the rules, um, what you can do with your super, where you can invest, everything. So, but it's important if you don't have um someone who can educate you, please go and educate yourself. Please go on the ATO website, like I said. Um, don't um don't ask ChatGPT. This is one thing I can tell you, because it is hallucinating. I check it sometimes, and it when it uh provides me with the answer, it sounds very confident. Uh but it's 50-50, literally 50-50. Yes, sometimes chat GPT gives um the right inform provides the right information and sometimes doesn't. So don't just rely on ChatGPT. Go to the official websites and educate yourself. Or again, get the advisor, um, get the SMSF specialist on your site. Or look, I do believe personally in um the experts, and um with SMSF, I can tell you that um look, it's worth investing in the experts from the different areas, um, including SMSF expert or a cybersecurity expert or crypto expert or property expert, whatever you want to do, just surround yourself with the expert. It's not worth playing or gambling with hundreds of thousands of dollars. Uh, that's one thing you have to understand as well.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Yeah. So on this um fin fiscally financial podcast series, we're looking at all the different ways you can build wealth, right? Um using small business as a vehicle for building wealth and then um alternative assets and ETFs and gold and bullion and and property and crypto. And SMSF really is the vehicle through which you can build wealth through those assets, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:24

All right, that's correct. You can diversify, and um ACO encourages trustees to diversify um in a self-managed superior fund. You can invest up to like 99% of your assets, um, of your cash in one asset class. However, again, you should start looking at um different options and different investments available because um again, it's a rule of thumb diversification, it's always a safest option in terms of the risk, because if you put all your eggs in one basket, there is a high chance that something will go wrong with this basket and then you'll lose your money.

SPEAKER_02 23:04

Yeah, which is definitely what I've been asking myself in the last few weeks. Has the crypto market's been looking like it's tanking? But we'll get onto that in the what do you want to do?

SPEAKER_03 23:14

But what opportunities are available?

SPEAKER_02 23:16

Yes. No, I did I I did listen to D in my head and thought, let's flip that and let's go and you know, squirrel away a little bit more because it's a good time to buy. And yeah, but um that's a whole other story, isn't it? But what you're saying is diversification is the key, as we know, to everything, and um that's the beauty of SMSF, um, that you can choose the the mix of your portfolio.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

Yeah, absolutely. So, but but again, we do have clients who prefer to invest in a particular asset class, which is okay as long as long as your investment strategy aligns uh with these investments. However, look with with what's going on with share market, uh, crypto market, uh gold, silver, we know that things you know like go up and down, and again, it's not for everyone uh to invest in one asset class and you know wait uh for years and sleep at night. This is one thing I can tell you because um if you diversify, your one investment goes uh down, another one potentially goes up when you don't diversify, then you just rely on this investment and this asset class, and you have to be um very strong, believer in this asset class if it goes down like this we see now with uh crypto. Um, it doesn't mean that you cannot do it, it's just you know, like you have to be mentally strong, I would say, to handle all these ups and downs, and and don't um because we will lose when you sell. That's the bottom line. So if you uh if you start uh panicking and panicking selling, then this is where you lose. This is where you lose.

SPEAKER_03 25:11

Yeah, yeah. Okay. It's all about certainly agree with that statement. It's it's being able to hold your head above everything and and keep the common sense when you're doing this. And uh Greg also is what Natalia was saying about spreading your assets around um within your self-managed super fund.

SPEAKER_02 25:31

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And um so what is, you know, for someone that might be starting out with their own SMSF, where do they like how do obviously they need to, you know, um engage with someone like yourself to get basic advice on, you know, say they say they come into a sum of money through an inheritance and they've got$200,000 and they they come to you and say, I want to um create a portfolio in my SMSF, like what are some of the things they can is it would you advise them to to split it four ways and put it into the different asset classes? How would you, or is it every is it dependent on every different person?

SPEAKER_00 26:15

Well, look, you are you just asked a very, very interesting question because um it's it this is what I call the uh advice gap in Australia. Because unfortunately, in Australia, you would not find a one person who can advise on all asset classes. So you wouldn't find someone who could say, okay, let's look at your$200,000 or whatever you you you have in the Kitty, and let's um invest in different asset classes, and we cover all asset classes. Now, if you wanna, for example, invest in shares and um listed entities, managed funds, ETFs, you would approach a financial advisor because it's all fun, these are financial products, and financial advisor can create a plan for you. It's it's it's called a statement of advice, where they can allocate your money to different um unlisted asset classes. And then you say, Oh, but I actually want to invest in property as well. With the property, you have to go and find a bias agent or bias advocate or someone who is good with properties and they do research and this is what they do for a living. Again, it's a second expert you need. Then you say, but I actually want to invest in cryptocurrency as well. Who do I go to? And here you go to the crypto educators, crypto um uh influencers. Um, again, there are a lot of them out there, and they educate you on uh cryptocurrency and how to invest in crypto. And then you say I want an alternative asset such as uh gold and silver, and again, you need to basically go to uh gold bullion. I don't think anyone advises on gold silver. Uh it's it's it's just common sense and it's straightforward. You just go and buy uh from the bullion provider, you buy gold or you buy buy silver. So, but there is no one specialist which could say, okay, uh let me advise you on all asset classes. And this is where the gap is. So um, this is where I'm saying that everyone uh should uh become financially curious if they wanna manage their own finances, including supernation. And this is where people should educate the same uh themselves by listening to podcasts like your podcast, for example, and making sure if they decide on uh a certain asset class, they find the right specialist. But again, it's not going to be one specialist for everything.

SPEAKER_02 28:55

That's really interesting, and I think Dee, that was a big driver for doing this podcast right, is that there are there is no one who currently can oversee all the aspects because it's specialist areas um of expertise, isn't it? Whether it's crypto or property or shares or ETFs and so on. So um, yeah, our goal in in doing this was getting experts on, like yourself, Natalia, to educate people on the the different facets and hopefully, you know, help us all navigate the the road a bit more easily. But I'm so I'm learning a lot just from this conversation. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because I'd for some reason I thought that um there were people out there that could you could take your pot of money to and say, right, help me diversify into alternative you know assets. But yeah, you're saying you've got to go to each specialist and get that set up.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And also you have to understand that each specialist has different um responsibility and different um insurance, for example, or um, you know, like the way how they you can litigate, uh mitigate the risk with them. So what I mean under that so is uh with with the financial advisors, for example, they operate under uh financial license. It means they are licensed, they have insurance, and um it means if something happens to your money, potentially the insurance will cover them, right? Then we talk about um property. Property is not a financial product, and again uh property buyers or advocates they don't have um insurance, they don't have license. It's just it's just how it's set up in Australia. It's not that these people are not specialists, it's just they are not required to have a license, they are not required. Um yeah, it's not regulated in a way how financial services are regulated. The same with cryptocurrency. Cryptocurrency is not financial product and it's not regulated as well, it's getting there, it's the the law is changing, but it's still not regulated, it's not financial product. And I can tell you even more that if you are a financial advisor and um you are uh operate under financial license, you cannot talk about cryptocurrency. You can't even open your mouth to talk about cryptocurrency. That's you know, um the irony of situation uh where people do need advice. The financial advisors cannot talk about it. They don't like, they don't like this asset class, the same like they usually don't like property, um, because it's it's you know, like they can't advise on it. And this is we have um advice gap. I call it advice gap, where people just have to find um someone who can advise them, or people have to educate themselves. Again, I'm coming back to self-education and being financially curious and finding the specialist, but finding um the the right specialist who's got an experience, uh, who's got you know always check experience, all these check, always check um reviews, um, and always check um this person's credentials.

SPEAKER_02 32:18

Yeah. Yeah. And so you audit um people's SMSF funds that's part of a service you provide, right? At EasySuper.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

Uh we do SMSF establishment. We do also uh prepare tax return and financials for SMSF, which is an annual compliance, and we do audits, but not we don't audit our funds, we audit the other accountants' funds.

SPEAKER_02 32:42

Yeah, okay. And what are some of the things you see that people do that are not allowed? And and what is like yeah, I'm sure you've got some good stories.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

Oh, look, sometimes people set up SMSF without understanding the rules, because again, they set it up uh with uh usually it happens when they set it up with online providers. Um, with online providers, very often there is no even like phone number you can call. You just do everything online. It's cheap and nasty. This is how I call cheap and nasty because there is no support, and people just uh dumped on their own. Um, yeah, this is your trusted, um, this is your SMSF, and you here you go, you're on a own. What people usually, what mistakes people usually do, they mix the money, their personal money, SMSF money. They um withdraw money, say for example, they need to pay some bill, they think I just borrow from my SMSF for a couple of days, a couple of weeks, and this is a breach uh straight away. Uh, even if you return the money, it's a breach. Doesn't many and doesn't matter. Once money leaves the system, it's a breach.

SPEAKER_02 33:55

Uh what's the punishment for that? What's the consequence of that?

SPEAKER_00 34:00

Uh potentially 60 penalty units, it's uh 19,000 something uh in fine. Um, and also disqualification as a trustee. If you keep repeating the same breach, you won't get punished um right away. Say if you've done one off, realize your mistake and get the money back. If the amount is not 500,000, of course, because some people say you know, 500,000 is not a genuine mistake, uh, obviously. It's an early release, and this is um, yeah, if you spend your superannuation money, this is where you get punished. Because some people do, unfortunately. There are providers out there, and it's um like obviously there are like a lot of sprukers out there which advertise that you can access your superannuation early. You cannot access your superanniation. You have to be at least 60 years old in order to access your superanation, or you have to die because death is the ultimate condition of release. This is when uh superanation uh can leave uh the superanation money, your benefits can leave superanation environment, or TPD. Uh, if you have TPD, total permanent disability or terminal illness, this is when uh money can leave superanation system. Um there are a few exemptions like um severe heart chip, etc. etc., like medical reasons, but they're very limited. And the amount which you can access, usually like 10 grand or something, but they're very, very, very limited circumstances. I would say if someone advertises that you can access your superannuation, they're definitely sprooking you the wrong thing. Yeah. And potentially you're up for uh 20 grand penalty per breach, it's a per breach trustee disqualification. It means uh if ATO disqualifies you, you will never be able to become a trustee for SMSF. Um, and plus additional tax, of course.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

Yeah. And so are there any rules again about what you're not allowed to invest in? So, for example, I had an AI-powered stock trading um system that I was talking with my SMSF person about investing in. And yeah, what are there rules around those sort of things? What is allowed, what's not allowed?

SPEAKER_00 36:27

Oh, yeah, of course. There are rules, what you allowed, not allowed. For example, you are not allowed to invest, um, you're not allowed to buy um cryptocurrency from yourself. So, I mean, USMSF is not allowed to buy cryptocurrency from yourself. Um, or gold silver, USMSF cannot buy gold silver silver from yourself. So it's like it's called related party. So if you're a related party, there are limitations what you can do and um what relationship you can have with USMSF. Remember in the beginning, I said just think about it. Uh, you are a manager, it's not your money, everything has to stay separately, everything has to be at arm's length. So there are certain things you are not allowed to do, including like related party transactions. In terms of the trading and what you mentioned, um, you are allowed to do it, but this is where you have to think about the technicality of it. Uh, we had um we had clients with bot trading in the SMSF, and it was crypto bot trading. Um, they had more than 2 million transactions per year. And when we had to reconcile it uh as an accountant, uh, first of all, no software will be able to reconcile it. No way. So we had to send it. Yeah, my Excel crashed. I couldn't, because it was a CSV file they sent us, I couldn't actually upload, um, upload the file into my Excel. It crashed. And then I had to send it to crypto reconciliation software. Uh, we use a special software. I had they had to send it to um their main office in America. They couldn't do it either. So that's you know, the the this is where technically technical part could be difficult. Yes, they were allowed to do it, um, but technicality, um, from technical point of view, it cost them uh cost us a lot of effort, cost them a lot of money because we had to be paid for the effort. Um, yeah, and this is where you think uh is it worth it? And at the end, they actually lost money on board trading between you and me. Um, they lost money, and to be honest, like this is a question mark, why would you do it? I always uh I always when I talk to my clients about um uh cryptocurrency or shares or any other assets, especially when they have some ideas like can I do board trading or can I buy some meme coins or can I invest in such and such uh crypto project? I always uh say to them, you can do whatever you want outside of super, go wild if you want to. However, inside of super, try to stay conservative. There is a section 64 or 62, sorry, of CIS Act, which is a sole purpose test. Sole purpose test uh states that your superanniation is for your retirement, so you have to understand that sole purpose test is your superanniation is to provide the benefits for you in retirement. It means you have to look after your superanation. It's not um, it's not a gambling machine, it's not a Russian roulette. So try try to stay conservative in a SMSF, whatever conservative means for you, um, in your particular circumstances. Again, everyone different and understands conservative being conservative, it's different for everyone, but try to stay conservative inside of uh super and do whatever you want outside of super. Like I said, you're wild. You lose your money, it's your money. In super, try to actually make money. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 40:20

Yeah, well, that is the purpose of it, isn't it? Correct. Yeah, interesting. Okay, so that's a good point to sort of close off on is um SMSFs are um a regulator structure for building wealth. So it's not a place to have a play and try things and try stuff. It's you've kind of got to have a well-thought out strategy and and you know, you are able to do all these things, but are there any rules around the return? So, say an asset class you've invested in in your SMSF is not making money or it's losing money, what does the auditor do in that case?

SPEAKER_00 41:03

There are no rules um in in terms of the return. If your asset class is losing money, it's just you know, like it's just you're lost. Um, however, if for example, um you lost money because of the scam, um, especially in crypto, you know, there are a lot of scams, or stolen crypto, or scammed crypto, or say, for example, uh you invested in some company and it collapsed, then we can realize a loss in the SMSF. However, we need a proof. We need a proof of the transactions, we need a proof that it was a scam. So there are certain documents required, but unfortunately, um these things can happen, and again, we can assist with the paperwork for the auditor. It's not um it's it's not the best outcome. I mean, it's a bad outcome for the SMSF, but unfortunately, um this could happen. It uh won't result in penalties um and um punishment from the ATO, but it it it will result with um you you losing your supernation, basically.

SPEAKER_02 42:14

Yeah, okay. So yeah, when you when you're branching out on your own with an SMSF, you are responsible and the government doesn't really care if you make money or not, it's your pro it's your problem, right? Is how um because because there's no rules around.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

Um look look, you you are incorrect here. The government um uh do care, they don't want you to lose money and then go on the age pension when you're when you're older. So they try to look uh and uh regulate the industry, however, at the same time we have a freedom of choice, yeah. And we, you know, like the government wants to give us this opportunity to invest in different asset classes, as long as we're doing it responsibly, and as long as we do our research and we have a knowledge and understand that again, it's it's not a gambling machine. So that's you know, that's your money.

SPEAKER_02 43:11

Yeah. Dee, do you have any final questions or thoughts?

SPEAKER_03 43:15

No, um, I think you girls covered it beautifully, actually. It's it's probably clarified some of the points that that we guide our clients with alone, like before we get them to Natalia, because they come to you with some fairly wild ideas of what they can do in their self-managed super fund because they see large sums of money coming across and they go, Oh, I can do this. So you make some very valid points, particularly with regards to bots. Uh I'm not a lover of all of those sorts of things. And agree also that your self-managed super fund needs to be kept at a conservative level. It needs to be easily traceable. You don't break the rules, you play by the game, you put in all your audits, you do all your paperwork once a year, and you have to understand that it's that you really are a custodian for those funds until they do become yours. Um And engaging with an expert is by far the best way to do it. I definitely agree with that education gap that we have in within Australia between the asset classes and how they're defined for that. And I think that also turns a lot of people off from actually doing this because they have to go and find those experts. And in cryptocurrency particularly, we talk about a trustless society. And that's what we are. It's trustless. So you have to know your research, you have to know where to go to get all your information. So no, look, excellent session, as usual, Natalia. I picked up some really good gems that I will be passing on to some of the others. And as usual, yeah, very informative. Enjoyed it immensely.

SPEAKER_02 44:41

Yeah, thank you, Natalia, for giving up your time to share your expertise with us today. And um, so yeah, if anyone wants to reach out to Natalia, she's at Easy Super. You can find her on LinkedIn and your website, Natalia. It's easy super.au. Okay, easy. Very good. Umce again, we just thank you for for being with us today and and um we look forward to staying connected and you and D work closely together. So um everyone keep and keep your eyes and ears out for the for the upcoming uh webinar you're doing together, is that right?

SPEAKER_03 45:20

Yeah, we've got that webinar coming. Um it'll be 4th of March from memory, if I remember rightly, Natalia. So we will do that together. That's a very informative one. Natalia is also going down. Is it the Australian Superannuation Convention or what is it that you're going to?

SPEAKER_00 45:35

SMSF, yeah, SMSF Association Conference.

SPEAKER_03 45:38

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 45:39

And you're on a panel down there, you're on the on a on a I'm on a panel, yeah, to discuss the SMSF establishment uh with um without advice uh topic, yeah. So um it's going to be interesting because um the regulators are going to be in a room, media, main media is going to be in the room. So um, yeah, that's because it's a hot topic at the moment. Uh when someone sets up SMSF, should they have advice or they could set up a smsf with without advice? And uh four out of five Australians set up a smsf without advice at the moment. Yeah. So regulators yeah, regulators are looking at it. Um, and um that's that's a discussion. That's a discussion. Is it the right um is it the right thing to uh let people set up a smsf without advice, or um the regulator should uh tighten the you know level? I can only imagine that's going to be a heated discussion. So everyone gets advice when they set up it's going to be a heated discussion. That's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 46:47

Well, thank you again, Natalia. It's a pleasure having you on the podcast with us, and we look forward to seeing you again very soon. Thanks again, Natalia. Take care. Thanks so much for listening, everyone. Bye for now. Thank you, Kate. Thanks, Dee. Thanks, everyone. Thanks so much for joining us today. If you're ready to take action, you're invited to come and join us at our upcoming Fiercely Financial Action Planning Workshop, where you'll get direct access to all of our expert guests Sam, Rachel, Natalia, Mia, Jeremy, Carmel, and Dee. Bring your wealth questions, your specific situation, and let's workshop your path from business owner to wealth creator. Spaces are limited, so we invite you to book your spot using the link in the show notes right now. We hope to see you there.